When I first read Katherine’s final speech at the end of Act 5, I was very surprised. It did not make sense to me that she would advise the other women to be loyal and obedient to their husbands. Up until this point, I was sure that her own obedience to Petruchio was just an act. The only reason she was submissive to him was to protect herself. I thought that Petruchio’s cruel actions had scared Katherine into compliance but certainly had not actually convince her that women are “bound to serve, love, and obey.(5.2.180)” So when she told the other women to behave as she does and obey their husband, is she serious? After rereading and thinking about Kate’s final speech, I have come to believe that Kate is speaking sarcastically. This entire play depicts marriage and dating as a joke or a game. So why should Kate’s speech be seen as an exception? Kate gets the longest speech in the play which shows that she really gets the last word. She puts on one final act and pretends to be submissive to the men who have spent the majority of the play playing a game. Maybe Kate’s final speech shows that she can play along and beat them at their own game. Of course reading this play, I cannot be sure that her tone is sarcastic. This shows once again that what is taken from the play is ultimately up to the director.
Like Olivia, I was completely caught of guard by Kate's final speech. It was unexpected that after saying little throughout the play, she would end with the longest speech. However, unlike Olivia, I took Kate's speech seriously. After fighting Petruchio with barbed words with double meanings, why would she change tactics at the end of the play? She must be serious. In addition, Kate seems to have become more docile than the average woman. Bianca and the Widow's refusal to be summoned gives me the impression that a normal woman would not stand to be summoned. Meanwhile, Kate has switched from being the shrew who would not only refuse to be summoned but also throw words in Petruchio's face, to following his every command.
While I shocked by Kate's speech, my main reaction was fury. I cannot believe that Kate could be broken by Petruchio and that she spewed such misogynistic rhetoric! Her comparison of a wife to "the subject [of a] prince" was demeaning and insinuated that women should be subservient to their husbands (5.2.171). If she had compared the wife to a queen, I would not have been offended by her references to husbands as "thy king, thy governor….thy lord, thy life, thy keeper, thy head, [and] thy sovereign" (5.2.154-163). Her chauvinistic speech supporting men who rule over their wives instead of men who rule with them astounds me after her independent and "shrewish" behavior in Act 1. I was hoping that Kate would thwart Petruchio's efforts to tame her, but I have been disappointed.
Like both Olivia and Morgan, I was amazed by Kate's final speech. My first reactions were disappointment and frustration. I was certain that Kate had been broken, but after reading Olivia's prospective, I'm not so sure. Still, the majority of me believes that Petruchio was finally able to break Kate. If he hadn't tamed her, why wouldn't she just lash out like she usually does, especially infront of Lucentio, Hortensio and Baptista. Why wouldn't she show Petruchio up by proving she was still the same old Kate?
I was hoping that Kate had just chosen to comply with Petruchio so they could get to Baptista's house for Bianca's wedding. I was hoping she was just playing along with him because she was just so annoyed with having to put up with him. And when we were told that Kate would have the last word, I was hoping it would be one last poke at Petruchio. After reading lines like "Unknit that threat'ning unkind brow, and dart not scornful glances from thoe eyes to wound thy lord, thy king, thy governor. It blots thy beauty as frost do bite the meads.." (5.2.152-155). I am pretty certain that Kate has been tamed. Before, she never cared what others thought of her, or cared about her beauty. It was disheartening to me to hear her telling Bianca and the widow to submit, when it seemed like Bianca was finally getting some backbone. "The more fool you for laying on my duty" (5.2.143. This quote shows Bianca has finally learned to control instead of be controllled, and it seems like Kate should be proud of her sister, but now it seems that the two have switched places. Kate is now the obedient one, while Bianca has finally learned to stand up for herself. Maybe that was the point of the play? Maybe it was about Bianca finally getting the courage to be her own person?
Until reading the very last line of this play, I believed Petruchio's ways had forced Kate to be tamed. I took her speech seriously and thought he had finally broken her. And I still believe she was tamed by the end, but I don't think he alone caused her to be tamed. The last line, spoken by Lucentio, is "'Tis a wonder, by your leave, she will be tamed so (5.2.206.)" I took this as meaning that he believes Kate allowed herself to be tamed. Yes, Petruchio encouraged her taming, but she let it happen. I began to think more about this and realized that I agree with Lucentio.
Throughout the entire play, Kate has typically been a very strong, independent woman. After living her whole life until this point as such, it would be difficult for someone to tame her unless that is what she wished for. She could have just been her usual stubborn self and not given in to Petruchio. So, since she seems to have given in at the end, I think she must have wanted it that way. I can't find a clear reason why, but it's possible that she realized she would only be happy with her marriage that way, or she just decided her life would be much easier if she were to let go of the powerful persona she previously had. Whatever her reason may be, I think she had to have let herself be tamed in order for it to happen.
Like everyone else, I was shocked by this Katherine’s final speech. Upon reading it, all I could think is what happened to her? I wanted her to rebel or add some snide remark at the end to undermine Petruchio, but there was nothing of the sort. From what I knew of Kate from Acts one through four, I couldn’t believe these were going to be her last words. So, I reread the passage closely and looked for hidden messages and finally found some. I believe that in her speech, although it seems the overall objective is to educate women on how to be submissive to their husbands, she actually is implying that the men are the ones working for the women, not the other way around.
Katherine’s hints are subtle, but they are there nonetheless present in the way she phrases sentences and chooses words. First, she begins by saying that the woman can “wound thy lord, thy king, thy governor” (5.2.154). Although it seems that she is preaching the submissiveness of women to the males around her with the use of lord, king, and governor (putting men in positions of power), she is actually saying that women wound the men. It is as if the men are the fragile ones in the relationship who rely on the women to be perfect so that society does not frown on them. Kate continues on with this hidden message of the power of women as she discusses how men are the ones “that [care] for thee” (5.2.163). It is for the “[woman’s] maintenance” that the husband “commits his body to painful labor both by sea and land” (5.2.164, 5.2.164-165). Everything the man does, he does for his wife. In this speech, the reader does not see Kate ever elaborate on how women should be the homemakers who take care of their husbands. Rather, the men are the ones doing all the work and caring for their women. While the women “liest warm at home, secure and safe,” the men are off doing the hard work in order to support the women (5.2.167). In this way, I believe that Kate is suggesting that women are the smart ones. They are able to manipulate their husbands so that the men do everything for them while they relax, comfortable at home. If all it takes to live this comfortable life is to come when a husband calls, then women are actually the ones winning in the relationship.
Most importantly Katherine says that it is silly for women to “offer war where they should kneel for peace” (5.2.178). Again, men listening to her speech would think that Kate is educating wives not to challenge their husbands. Rather, I believe Kate is guiding women to go along with the act. Let the men think they are in charge while the women actually rule the relationship. Once Kate stopped challenging Petruchio, her life got easier. Also, didn’t she end up getting what she wanted? She got to go home for her sister’s wedding. Petruchio might have thought he tamed Kate when in reality she learned that it is easier not to publicly fight him but rather use her wits to get ahead in the game. Thus, to the inferior and less educated men, Kate’s speech seems like a guideline on how to be the perfect submissive wife. However, to the intelligent women, Kate just taught them the secret to coming out on top in a marriage.
I don't really know how to feel about Kate's final word. As Olivia pointed out, she really did get the last word, and it was nothing that I would have suspected. But I can't decide which tone suits it best, since it is left to reader's discretion. From the surrounding lines, and actions in act 5 I feel like she's submitting to Petruchio's ideals. She begins the play very strong headed, but that almost seems more of an act to me than this final speech. She seems very raw, and uncut as she speaks. "My mind hath been as big as one of yours, my heart as great, my reason haply more (5.2.186)." She's admitting her past, not defending it, but merely accepting how she was and goes on to say there's hope you can change. But do the other women buy it? Does anyone buy it?
The play is so frustrating because it's left up to my discretion. Lucentio's commentary on her speech could be joking, but I truly believe he along with the other suitor's (Even Baptista) is in awe of Petruchio's skills. Kate has submitted, and from what we are shown on stage it's not an act. That's what she sticks with after her marriage to Petruchio. She doesn't deflect from it, she seems to be a changed woman. But I guess we really will never know, maybe Shakespeare hadn't quite made up his mind either.
I would have to agree with Olivia and Bronte and their take on Kate’s ending speech. I think that Kate speaks sarcastically and is in fact telling the other two, Bianca and the widow, that the woman has the upper hand in a relationship as long as she goes along with the act. In her speech she says that women “li’st warm at home, secure and safe” (5.2.151) while the husbands do all the work. She even says “our bodies [are] soft and weak and smooth, unapt to toil and trouble in the world” (5.2.165-155). By saying this, I believe that she is laying some ground rules for her relationship with Petruchio. She still has power, but in a very discrete way. Also in her final speech, Kate alludes to the physical harm that was done to her when she disobeyed her husband. She describes an ill tempered woman as “none so dry or thirsty” (5.2. 145) which alludes to her state, starved and thirsty, when she spoke out against Petruchio. Also she says “vail your stomachs, for it is no boot” (5.2.176) which means that it’s not worth it to be prideful. I think that she is just going along with it so she can be healthy. She may be tamed in the eyes of Petruchio and the other men. But I think that she is playing an act on them all. Much like the game all the suitors played with Bianca and Kate, Kate will play her own game to fool her husband into doing most of the work, while all she has to do is stay silent.
I was exasperated at Kate’s speech, but the more I thought about what the speech was saying and why the speech was given, I understood it more. By telling Bianca and the Widow how to act in a marriage, Kate makes several good points. When Kate says “I am ashamed that women are so simple/To offer war where they should kneel for peace,” (5.2.177-78), I think that she is telling the other wives to choose their battles by doing what is expected of them but having power in other ways, such as the power “to bandy word for word and frown for frown.” (5.2.188). Instead of fighting with their husbands by disobeying them, Kate says to fight with words. However, I wondered the most about what inspired Kate to make this speech. I think that she gave this speech for Bianca’s benefit. In this scene, Bianca, who had seemed obedient and mild-tempered up to this point, does not go to her husband when she is called. She is later summoned by Kate to hear Kate’s speech. Somewhere between Kate’s marriage and the fifth act, Bianca has become the shrew. Kate gives Bianca this advice because Kate does not want Bianca to go through the same tribulations in marriage. I think that, though much of the advice could be applied to the widow, most of it was directed at Bianca.
When I first read Kate's speech I wasn’t as shocked at what she was saying as I was to the length of it. It's the longest that she has spoken in the entire play. If she had been simply going along with his plan to avoid torture, several lines would have been sufficient. I think it's possible that she wasn’t as strong as she tried to make everyone think. In that case the speech is the point in which she is completely tamed; she gives in to his authority.
On the other hand Olivia, Eller and Bronte have a very good point in that Kate could be speaking sarcastically. She could be asserting herself over him with her tone and he doesn't even seem to catch on. Either way I liked what Suzanne said about her giving Bianca advice to avoid the torture that she has been through. "Muddy, ill-seeming, thick, bereft of beauty, and while it is so, none so dry or thirsty"(5.2.159-160) I guess I will have to leave it up to the directors to decide on this one because it really depends on how Kate was portrayed from the beginning.
While I understand that Kate’s final words may be sarcastic or filled with hidden meaning, as some have suggested, she gives them under Petruchio’s command. I believe that Kate simply giving the speech shows her taming. It is irrelevant whether she is promoting a wife’s obedience or not because she is showing her own obedience to Petruchio by obeying his every command. Since he began to “break” her, Kate has not back lashed, so although her life may be easier not lashing out, I don’t believe we can say she is happy. Kate really is not the winner in this situation, after all, she is the reason Petruchio is winning bets of 100 crowns.
I wish Kate would have used this opportunity to yell and scream and ruin Petruchio’s pride, but she did not. Instead she uses her opportunity to speak to tell Bianca and the widow to submit to their husbands and “place [their] hands below [their] husband’s foot” (5.2.193). We have to ask ourselves the question if Kate submitting willingly to make her life easier makes her or Petruchio the winner in this situation. In my opinion, Petruchio is the clear winner because in the end he has tamed Kate into the wife he wants.
When I first read Kate's final speech I was shocked, angry, and somewhat betrayed. I think there was a similar reaction in most of my classmates as well. But then I read over the posts and there were so many great points made that my mind is spinning in so many different directions.
Like Olivia and so many others, I agree that Kate managed to get the last word with her ridiculously long, misogynistic, yet very era appropriate speech. In this last hurrah, she acts more like the women of this time by saying that Petruchio and other men are "thy lord, thy life, thy keeper, Thy head, thy sovereign" (5.2.155). So I'm not sure if this is her being entirely tamed or Shakespeare trying to portray the actions of the "normal" woman at the time who moons over her husband and is a mindless, subservient fool.
But Bronte had an excellent point, that if you go back and read her speech with a fine tooth comb and the right mindset, it is rife with hidden (opposite) meaning and sarcasm. And for thy maintenance commits his body To painful labor both by sea and land, To watch the night in storms, the day in cold, Whilst thou liest warm at home, secure and safe, (5.2.157) This is the exact opposite of what happened when she arrived at Petruchio's house, she was neither warm nor secure and safe. She was cold and wet in the beginning, then starved and sleep deprived, which is certainly not secure and safe.
So whether it is a biting reply to the torture she suffered full of hidden meaning and witty remarks, or an entirely humble speech because her previous personality was broken and beaten out of her… That is open to interpretation and can be viewed both ways.
Like Brandi, I wasn't really shocked like everyone else when I read Kate's final speech. I thought that the seen at Petruchio's home after they got married was a good indication of what was to come: she would eventually fully be tamed. At first I didn't even consider the idea that the whole speech might have been sarcastic. But what really shocks me about her speech is the timing of it. Was Petruchio really able to tame her that well, that fast? It doesn't shock me that Kate was tamed, but the fact that it happened within a couple of days confuses me and leads me to believe that maybe Olivia is right; it was all just an act.
But to go with my first instinct, that it was not an act, at least Kate seems happy. She may be acting sort of brainwashed, but her actions give hope that maybe their marriage will actually work. Obviously the statement “Thy husband is thy lord, thy life, thy kepper, thy head, they sovereign, one that cares for thee,” (5.2.162) is unsettling, but after Kate and Petruchio kiss and leave the rest of the couples in wonder, they seem like their marriage will be fine. The words spoken between Lucentio and Bianca, however, give indication that unlike Kate, Bianca will do what she wants when she wants. Perhaps with the freedom Lucentio seems to give his new wife, Bianca will turn into the new shrew and with Lucentio unable to “tame” her, perhaps Kate is the one who is better off with a marriage that she seems like she will be happy with.
I too was not shocked by Kate's speech. I actually guessed that she would use her words to make a point when taming the other women. He knew exactly what he was doing when he started taming Kate by always insisting he was right all the time. Each time he did it, she caved in quicker and quicker. When I read the first sentence, a tiny thought in my mind was thinking that she might be a little sarcastic. But as I continued to read further, I realized she was completely serious.
I kinda wish she would have caused a scene though because it would have been completely justified considering she was pushed around as soon as she married Petruchio. I wish she would have stood up for herself, telling all the other women that it was awful and to abandon their husbands. Although the results would have been the same regardless of if she sided with him or not. But if she hadn't sided with him, it would have been harder for the other men to train their wives than it probably would have been for them since she did agree.
I don’t buy a word that Kate is saying. I think that she is just saying it to please Petruchio. She knows that he will be mad at her later on if she doesn’t say the things that she does. She is allowing herself to be tamed. Lucentio says, “'Tis a wonder, by your leave, she will be tamed so (5.2.199.)” She is so afraid of the consequences that she will have to endure if she doesn’t obey Petruchio that she will literally say whatever she has to. Kate says, “Such duty as the subject owes the prince, even such a woman oweth to her husband (5.2.164.)” She is comparing her husband to a prince. She would never dare to enrage or disrespect a prince- the consequences would be huge! It is the same concept. She doesn’t see Petruchio as her husband. She sees him as her master; her prince. She doesn’t want to upset him. She has seen him angry before, and it really freaked her out. My other theory about Kate’s speech, assuming that she is not speaking out of fear, is that she is speaking this way because she knew that this scenario was going to occur. Somehow, Kate and Petruchio have plotted out her speech so that Petruchio can win the bet. He is a sneaky man who is obsessed with his money, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he plotted out the whole scenario, told Katherine about it before they arrived back in Padua, and cheated to win. We don’t see the conversation that goes on between the three wives when Grumio goes to retrieve them. For all we know, Kate could have encouraged them to not give in to their husband’s requests.
When I first read Kate's final speech, I was confused. In the beginning she had been a strong willed, confident woman and now she appears to be a weak, submissive wife. "Thy husband is they lord, they life, they keeper" (5.2.162). In this passage she seems to be saying that without a husband, a woman does not exist. A woman's only job is to serve her husband. This is nearly the exact opposite of what we thought of Kate at the beginning of the passage. Though, does Kate ever say how she feels about marriage in earlier scenes? We know she stood up for herself and tied up her sister, but do we ever know how she feels about how a woman should behave once married? She may have had the same values as other women of the time and only seemed shrewish because of her jealousy of her sister. Before, during, and after the wedding, Petruchio puts Kate through many tourments and embarassment. This speech may have just shown how she is tired of Petruchio's treatment and her thinking that maybe if she obeys him and gets the other women to obey their husbands, she will be treated with love instead of with challenges and obsticals. "Women are so simple to offer war where they should kneel for peace" (5.2.177-178). Kate has been through war with Petruchio and in this passage she is trying to figuratively kneel to Petruchio, asking for peace.I believe she is simply tired, hungry, and ready for a quiet marriage.
When I first read Katherine’s final speech at the end of Act 5, I was very surprised. It did not make sense to me that she would advise the other women to be loyal and obedient to their husbands. Up until this point, I was sure that her own obedience to Petruchio was just an act. The only reason she was submissive to him was to protect herself. I thought that Petruchio’s cruel actions had scared Katherine into compliance but certainly had not actually convince her that women are “bound to serve, love, and obey.(5.2.180)” So when she told the other women to behave as she does and obey their husband, is she serious?
ReplyDeleteAfter rereading and thinking about Kate’s final speech, I have come to believe that Kate is speaking sarcastically. This entire play depicts marriage and dating as a joke or a game. So why should Kate’s speech be seen as an exception? Kate gets the longest speech in the play which shows that she really gets the last word. She puts on one final act and pretends to be submissive to the men who have spent the majority of the play playing a game. Maybe Kate’s final speech shows that she can play along and beat them at their own game. Of course reading this play, I cannot be sure that her tone is sarcastic. This shows once again that what is taken from the play is ultimately up to the director.
Like Olivia, I was completely caught of guard by Kate's final speech. It was unexpected that after saying little throughout the play, she would end with the longest speech. However, unlike Olivia, I took Kate's speech seriously. After fighting Petruchio with barbed words with double meanings, why would she change tactics at the end of the play? She must be serious. In addition, Kate seems to have become more docile than the average woman. Bianca and the Widow's refusal to be summoned gives me the impression that a normal woman would not stand to be summoned. Meanwhile, Kate has switched from being the shrew who would not only refuse to be summoned but also throw words in Petruchio's face, to following his every command.
ReplyDeleteWhile I shocked by Kate's speech, my main reaction was fury. I cannot believe that Kate could be broken by Petruchio and that she spewed such misogynistic rhetoric! Her comparison of a wife to "the subject [of a] prince" was demeaning and insinuated that women should be subservient to their husbands (5.2.171). If she had compared the wife to a queen, I would not have been offended by her references to husbands as "thy king, thy governor….thy lord, thy life, thy keeper, thy head, [and] thy sovereign" (5.2.154-163). Her chauvinistic speech supporting men who rule over their wives instead of men who rule with them astounds me after her independent and "shrewish" behavior in Act 1. I was hoping that Kate would thwart Petruchio's efforts to tame her, but I have been disappointed.
Like both Olivia and Morgan, I was amazed by Kate's final speech. My first reactions were disappointment and frustration. I was certain that Kate had been broken, but after reading Olivia's prospective, I'm not so sure. Still, the majority of me believes that Petruchio was finally able to break Kate. If he hadn't tamed her, why wouldn't she just lash out like she usually does, especially infront of Lucentio, Hortensio and Baptista. Why wouldn't she show Petruchio up by proving she was still the same old Kate?
ReplyDeleteI was hoping that Kate had just chosen to comply with Petruchio so they could get to Baptista's house for Bianca's wedding. I was hoping she was just playing along with him because she was just so annoyed with having to put up with him. And when we were told that Kate would have the last word, I was hoping it would be one last poke at Petruchio. After reading lines like "Unknit that threat'ning unkind brow, and dart not scornful glances from thoe eyes to wound thy lord, thy king, thy governor. It blots thy beauty as frost do bite the meads.." (5.2.152-155). I am pretty certain that Kate has been tamed. Before, she never cared what others thought of her, or cared about her beauty. It was disheartening to me to hear her telling Bianca and the widow to submit, when it seemed like Bianca was finally getting some backbone. "The more fool you for laying on my duty" (5.2.143. This quote shows Bianca has finally learned to control instead of be controllled, and it seems like Kate should be proud of her sister, but now it seems that the two have switched places. Kate is now the obedient one, while Bianca has finally learned to stand up for herself. Maybe that was the point of the play? Maybe it was about Bianca finally getting the courage to be her own person?
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ReplyDeleteUntil reading the very last line of this play, I believed Petruchio's ways had forced Kate to be tamed. I took her speech seriously and thought he had finally broken her. And I still believe she was tamed by the end, but I don't think he alone caused her to be tamed. The last line, spoken by Lucentio, is "'Tis a wonder, by your leave, she will be tamed so (5.2.206.)" I took this as meaning that he believes Kate allowed herself to be tamed. Yes, Petruchio encouraged her taming, but she let it happen. I began to think more about this and realized that I agree with Lucentio.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the entire play, Kate has typically been a very strong, independent woman. After living her whole life until this point as such, it would be difficult for someone to tame her unless that is what she wished for. She could have just been her usual stubborn self and not given in to Petruchio. So, since she seems to have given in at the end, I think she must have wanted it that way. I can't find a clear reason why, but it's possible that she realized she would only be happy with her marriage that way, or she just decided her life would be much easier if she were to let go of the powerful persona she previously had. Whatever her reason may be, I think she had to have let herself be tamed in order for it to happen.
Like everyone else, I was shocked by this Katherine’s final speech. Upon reading it, all I could think is what happened to her? I wanted her to rebel or add some snide remark at the end to undermine Petruchio, but there was nothing of the sort. From what I knew of Kate from Acts one through four, I couldn’t believe these were going to be her last words. So, I reread the passage closely and looked for hidden messages and finally found some. I believe that in her speech, although it seems the overall objective is to educate women on how to be submissive to their husbands, she actually is implying that the men are the ones working for the women, not the other way around.
ReplyDeleteKatherine’s hints are subtle, but they are there nonetheless present in the way she phrases sentences and chooses words. First, she begins by saying that the woman can “wound thy lord, thy king, thy governor” (5.2.154). Although it seems that she is preaching the submissiveness of women to the males around her with the use of lord, king, and governor (putting men in positions of power), she is actually saying that women wound the men. It is as if the men are the fragile ones in the relationship who rely on the women to be perfect so that society does not frown on them. Kate continues on with this hidden message of the power of women as she discusses how men are the ones “that [care] for thee” (5.2.163). It is for the “[woman’s] maintenance” that the husband “commits his body to painful labor both by sea and land” (5.2.164, 5.2.164-165). Everything the man does, he does for his wife. In this speech, the reader does not see Kate ever elaborate on how women should be the homemakers who take care of their husbands. Rather, the men are the ones doing all the work and caring for their women. While the women “liest warm at home, secure and safe,” the men are off doing the hard work in order to support the women (5.2.167). In this way, I believe that Kate is suggesting that women are the smart ones. They are able to manipulate their husbands so that the men do everything for them while they relax, comfortable at home. If all it takes to live this comfortable life is to come when a husband calls, then women are actually the ones winning in the relationship.
Most importantly Katherine says that it is silly for women to “offer war where they should kneel for peace” (5.2.178). Again, men listening to her speech would think that Kate is educating wives not to challenge their husbands. Rather, I believe Kate is guiding women to go along with the act. Let the men think they are in charge while the women actually rule the relationship. Once Kate stopped challenging Petruchio, her life got easier. Also, didn’t she end up getting what she wanted? She got to go home for her sister’s wedding. Petruchio might have thought he tamed Kate when in reality she learned that it is easier not to publicly fight him but rather use her wits to get ahead in the game. Thus, to the inferior and less educated men, Kate’s speech seems like a guideline on how to be the perfect submissive wife. However, to the intelligent women, Kate just taught them the secret to coming out on top in a marriage.
I don't really know how to feel about Kate's final word. As Olivia pointed out, she really did get the last word, and it was nothing that I would have suspected. But I can't decide which tone suits it best, since it is left to reader's discretion. From the surrounding lines, and actions in act 5 I feel like she's submitting to Petruchio's ideals. She begins the play very strong headed, but that almost seems more of an act to me than this final speech. She seems very raw, and uncut as she speaks. "My mind hath been as big as one of yours, my heart as great, my reason haply more (5.2.186)." She's admitting her past, not defending it, but merely accepting how she was and goes on to say there's hope you can change. But do the other women buy it? Does anyone buy it?
ReplyDeleteThe play is so frustrating because it's left up to my discretion. Lucentio's commentary on her speech could be joking, but I truly believe he along with the other suitor's (Even Baptista) is in awe of Petruchio's skills. Kate has submitted, and from what we are shown on stage it's not an act. That's what she sticks with after her marriage to Petruchio. She doesn't deflect from it, she seems to be a changed woman. But I guess we really will never know, maybe Shakespeare hadn't quite made up his mind either.
I would have to agree with Olivia and Bronte and their take on Kate’s ending speech. I think that Kate speaks sarcastically and is in fact telling the other two, Bianca and the widow, that the woman has the upper hand in a relationship as long as she goes along with the act. In her speech she says that women “li’st warm at home, secure and safe” (5.2.151) while the husbands do all the work. She even says “our bodies [are] soft and weak and smooth, unapt to toil and trouble in the world” (5.2.165-155). By saying this, I believe that she is laying some ground rules for her relationship with Petruchio. She still has power, but in a very discrete way.
ReplyDeleteAlso in her final speech, Kate alludes to the physical harm that was done to her when she disobeyed her husband. She describes an ill tempered woman as “none so dry or thirsty” (5.2. 145) which alludes to her state, starved and thirsty, when she spoke out against Petruchio. Also she says “vail your stomachs, for it is no boot” (5.2.176) which means that it’s not worth it to be prideful. I think that she is just going along with it so she can be healthy. She may be tamed in the eyes of Petruchio and the other men. But I think that she is playing an act on them all. Much like the game all the suitors played with Bianca and Kate, Kate will play her own game to fool her husband into doing most of the work, while all she has to do is stay silent.
I was exasperated at Kate’s speech, but the more I thought about what the speech was saying and why the speech was given, I understood it more. By telling Bianca and the Widow how to act in a marriage, Kate makes several good points. When Kate says “I am ashamed that women are so simple/To offer war where they should kneel for peace,” (5.2.177-78), I think that she is telling the other wives to choose their battles by doing what is expected of them but having power in other ways, such as the power “to bandy word for word and frown for frown.” (5.2.188). Instead of fighting with their husbands by disobeying them, Kate says to fight with words.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I wondered the most about what inspired Kate to make this speech. I think that she gave this speech for Bianca’s benefit. In this scene, Bianca, who had seemed obedient and mild-tempered up to this point, does not go to her husband when she is called. She is later summoned by Kate to hear Kate’s speech. Somewhere between Kate’s marriage and the fifth act, Bianca has become the shrew. Kate gives Bianca this advice because Kate does not want Bianca to go through the same tribulations in marriage. I think that, though much of the advice could be applied to the widow, most of it was directed at Bianca.
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ReplyDeleteWhen I first read Kate's speech I wasn’t as shocked at what she was saying as I was to the length of it. It's the longest that she has spoken in the entire play. If she had been simply going along with his plan to avoid torture, several lines would have been sufficient. I think it's possible that she wasn’t as strong as she tried to make everyone think. In that case the speech is the point in which she is completely tamed; she gives in to his authority.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand Olivia, Eller and Bronte have a very good point in that Kate could be speaking sarcastically. She could be asserting herself over him with her tone and he doesn't even seem to catch on. Either way I liked what Suzanne said about her giving Bianca advice to avoid the torture that she has been through. "Muddy, ill-seeming, thick, bereft of beauty, and while it is so, none so dry or thirsty"(5.2.159-160) I guess I will have to leave it up to the directors to decide on this one because it really depends on how Kate was portrayed from the beginning.
While I understand that Kate’s final words may be sarcastic or filled with hidden meaning, as some have suggested, she gives them under Petruchio’s command. I believe that Kate simply giving the speech shows her taming. It is irrelevant whether she is promoting a wife’s obedience or not because she is showing her own obedience to Petruchio by obeying his every command. Since he began to “break” her, Kate has not back lashed, so although her life may be easier not lashing out, I don’t believe we can say she is happy. Kate really is not the winner in this situation, after all, she is the reason Petruchio is winning bets of 100 crowns.
ReplyDeleteI wish Kate would have used this opportunity to yell and scream and ruin Petruchio’s pride, but she did not. Instead she uses her opportunity to speak to tell Bianca and the widow to submit to their husbands and “place [their] hands below [their] husband’s foot” (5.2.193). We have to ask ourselves the question if Kate submitting willingly to make her life easier makes her or Petruchio the winner in this situation. In my opinion, Petruchio is the clear winner because in the end he has tamed Kate into the wife he wants.
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ReplyDeleteWhen I first read Kate's final speech I was shocked, angry, and somewhat betrayed.
ReplyDeleteI think there was a similar reaction in most of my classmates as well. But then I read over the posts and there were so many great points made that my mind is spinning in so many different directions.
Like Olivia and so many others, I agree that Kate managed to get the last word with her ridiculously long, misogynistic, yet very era appropriate speech. In this last hurrah, she acts more like the women of this time by saying that Petruchio and other men are "thy lord, thy life, thy keeper, Thy head, thy sovereign" (5.2.155). So I'm not sure if this is her being entirely tamed or Shakespeare trying to portray the actions of the "normal" woman at the time who moons over her husband and is a mindless, subservient fool.
But Bronte had an excellent point, that if you go back and read her speech with a fine tooth comb and the right mindset, it is rife with hidden (opposite) meaning and sarcasm.
And for thy maintenance commits his body
To painful labor both by sea and land,
To watch the night in storms, the day in cold,
Whilst thou liest warm at home, secure and safe,
(5.2.157)
This is the exact opposite of what happened when she arrived at Petruchio's house, she was neither warm nor secure and safe. She was cold and wet in the beginning, then starved and sleep deprived, which is certainly not secure and safe.
So whether it is a biting reply to the torture she suffered full of hidden meaning and witty remarks, or an entirely humble speech because her previous personality was broken and beaten out of her… That is open to interpretation and can be viewed both ways.
Like Brandi, I wasn't really shocked like everyone else when I read Kate's final speech. I thought that the seen at Petruchio's home after they got married was a good indication of what was to come: she would eventually fully be tamed. At first I didn't even consider the idea that the whole speech might have been sarcastic. But what really shocks me about her speech is the timing of it. Was Petruchio really able to tame her that well, that fast? It doesn't shock me that Kate was tamed, but the fact that it happened within a couple of days confuses me and leads me to believe that maybe Olivia is right; it was all just an act.
ReplyDeleteBut to go with my first instinct, that it was not an act, at least Kate seems happy. She may be acting sort of brainwashed, but her actions give hope that maybe their marriage will actually work. Obviously the statement “Thy husband is thy lord, thy life, thy kepper, thy head, they sovereign, one that cares for thee,” (5.2.162) is unsettling, but after Kate and Petruchio kiss and leave the rest of the couples in wonder, they seem like their marriage will be fine. The words spoken between Lucentio and Bianca, however, give indication that unlike Kate, Bianca will do what she wants when she wants. Perhaps with the freedom Lucentio seems to give his new wife, Bianca will turn into the new shrew and with Lucentio unable to “tame” her, perhaps Kate is the one who is better off with a marriage that she seems like she will be happy with.
I too was not shocked by Kate's speech. I actually guessed that she would use her words to make a point when taming the other women. He knew exactly what he was doing when he started taming Kate by always insisting he was right all the time. Each time he did it, she caved in quicker and quicker. When I read the first sentence, a tiny thought in my mind was thinking that she might be a little sarcastic. But as I continued to read further, I realized she was completely serious.
ReplyDeleteI kinda wish she would have caused a scene though because it would have been completely justified considering she was pushed around as soon as she married Petruchio. I wish she would have stood up for herself, telling all the other women that it was awful and to abandon their husbands. Although the results would have been the same regardless of if she sided with him or not. But if she hadn't sided with him, it would have been harder for the other men to train their wives than it probably would have been for them since she did agree.
I don’t buy a word that Kate is saying. I think that she is just saying it to please Petruchio. She knows that he will be mad at her later on if she doesn’t say the things that she does. She is allowing herself to be tamed. Lucentio says, “'Tis a wonder, by your leave, she will be tamed so (5.2.199.)” She is so afraid of the consequences that she will have to endure if she doesn’t obey Petruchio that she will literally say whatever she has to. Kate says, “Such duty as the subject owes the prince, even such a woman oweth to her husband (5.2.164.)” She is comparing her husband to a prince. She would never dare to enrage or disrespect a prince- the consequences would be huge! It is the same concept. She doesn’t see Petruchio as her husband. She sees him as her master; her prince. She doesn’t want to upset him. She has seen him angry before, and it really freaked her out.
ReplyDeleteMy other theory about Kate’s speech, assuming that she is not speaking out of fear, is that she is speaking this way because she knew that this scenario was going to occur. Somehow, Kate and Petruchio have plotted out her speech so that Petruchio can win the bet. He is a sneaky man who is obsessed with his money, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he plotted out the whole scenario, told Katherine about it before they arrived back in Padua, and cheated to win. We don’t see the conversation that goes on between the three wives when Grumio goes to retrieve them. For all we know, Kate could have encouraged them to not give in to their husband’s requests.
When I first read Kate's final speech, I was confused. In the beginning she had been a strong willed, confident woman and now she appears to be a weak, submissive wife. "Thy husband is they lord, they life, they keeper" (5.2.162). In this passage she seems to be saying that without a husband, a woman does not exist. A woman's only job is to serve her husband. This is nearly the exact opposite of what we thought of Kate at the beginning of the passage. Though, does Kate ever say how she feels about marriage in earlier scenes? We know she stood up for herself and tied up her sister, but do we ever know how she feels about how a woman should behave once married? She may have had the same values as other women of the time and only seemed shrewish because of her jealousy of her sister.
ReplyDeleteBefore, during, and after the wedding, Petruchio puts Kate through many tourments and embarassment. This speech may have just shown how she is tired of Petruchio's treatment and her thinking that maybe if she obeys him and gets the other women to obey their husbands, she will be treated with love instead of with challenges and obsticals. "Women are so simple to offer war where they should kneel for peace" (5.2.177-178). Kate has been through war with Petruchio and in this passage she is trying to figuratively kneel to Petruchio, asking for peace.I believe she is simply tired, hungry, and ready for a quiet marriage.